An interesting discussion on criminal “gun violence”


Earlier this month, David Magnusson examined the problem of so-called “gun violence” from a police perspective.  He made an important observation, and asked for feedback.

Have people gotten smug enough to carry concealed guns on them with impunity, believing that they will not be challenged by police?  If so, it is equally important to learn why they would feel that way?  What are we doing wrong?  Or perhaps more importantly, what are we not doing? Without casting my own theories, it is probably imperative that we collectively, as law enforcement professionals, look carefully and wisely into why a new comfort zone exists for the illegal gun-toting populace.  Once we can define that, we need to quickly find a way to change that perception.

It is not going to get better on its own.

What do YOU think?

We would love to hear your ideas, theories and opinions on how law enforcement should approach the issue of gun violence committed by criminals carrying illegal guns…seemingly without fear of being caught by police.

There’s more at the link.

In response to his request, a number of police officers gave their views on the roots of the problem, and how to deal with it.  Some have been published in a follow-up article.  Here are a few selected quotes.

In my opinion, one of the major differences between now and 2003 is the attitude of the prosecutors offices across the country.  We arrest the armed individual and the prosecutors drop the charges … felons have no fear of the police any longer.  They have told me they used to respect us but they do not any longer as they know we can’t do anything to them.  This causes officers to feel helpless and hopeless in protecting their community.  It is a sad time for the good people in our country.

. . .

This is a multi-variable problem … just fill out a chart of all the issues with society and then throw a dart at it, and it’s still only a small part of the problem: the courts and justice system are not properly prosecuting the offenders, a degradation of societal values and morals through various pillars of influence (such as media, politics, etc.), tone deaf politics/government policies from both sides of the aisle adversely affecting law enforcement, the continuing and escalating fatherless rate/break down of the nuclear family in our communities, negative influence from celebrity/professional athletes, the growing welfare state, and other variables…

These are hard and unpopular reasons that are now too controversial to even discuss, but it’s the truth and reality.  Not to sound like a pessimist, but it will continue to get worse.

. . .

My suggestion would be to push for firearms safety training in schools, along with age restrictions on violent video games that glorify senseless murder for fun.

Teach kids that guns need to be used responsibly and should NEVER be pointed at another person.

As a former firearms instructor, I have seen the hardest thing to train out of a person is lifelong training that you never point a gun at another person.

Again, more at the link.

The rest of the responses make interesting reading, and illustrate the diversity of opinions among law enforcement about this fundamental topic of discussion.  Recommended reading to gain insight into the frustrations of the “thin blue line” about a very real threat to their safety.



  1. To add to the complexity of the issue, some states (mine included….Tennessee) have passed Constitutional Carry laws that allow citizens to carry weapons concealed as a Constitutional right of citizenship…no permit required. So our police are probably bracing and training for the date of July 1, when the law goes into effect. From that point on, it must be assumed that everyone (and I do mean EVERYONE) is potentially carrying a weapon.

    I have already identified my weapon of choice for after July 1, a nice Russian Makarov (9mm Makarov) that hugs my waistline and causes nary a bulge.

    So I'm pretty sure that in the future, police might approach everyone, even the most innocent traffic stop, as a potential armed person. Of course with most citizens it will present no problem, but as usual, the criminal class will still have their arms at the ready.

    Brave New World.

  2. Arizona has had Constitutional carry for years now. Amazingly, the gun battles in the streets predicted by the Dems and the press (but I repeat myself) didn't happen, and the crime rate dropped. Our police found out that things didn't change for them. Citizens aren't threats, criminals are. We have had some police shootings where the law was shot, and the criminal was promptly ventilated by an armed citizen.

  3. The comments from the police are quite interesting. You can clearly see the stark divide between the Leftists (talk more, arrest fewer minorities, don't let the people have guns) and the decent people (the problem isn't with the cops, it's the prosecutors, judges, and politicians).

  4. Waitwaitwait.

    "guns need to be used responsibly and should NEVER be pointed at another person."

    I hope his wedding tackle is bigger than his brain, or he's going to win a Darwin Award just for existing, and probably with oak leaf clusters when he doesn't point his gun at another person, EVER, including in the line of duty.

    I'm just a dumbass Marine, but last I looked, guns were expressly DESIGNED to point at ANY NUMBER OF OTHER PERSONS, for assault, theft, attempted murder, and an entire penal code full of other predations on the citizenry. IIRC, that's why Col. Colt invented his.

    If Officer Fudd doesn't think better than he writes, he's too stupid to be entrusted with a badge or a gun, let alone both at the same time, which, from all available evidence, is a far from uncommon problem within that occ. field.

    He should either put the keyboard down until he can think and express himself more clearly the Mississippi River water, or else put down the gun and badge until someone explains the error of his ways to him. Probably with drawings in crayon, and lots of shiny pictures.

    And we have another front-rank contestant in the "I'm the only one in this room who can be entrusted with a Glock Fowty" Category.

    Example #1,003 in why the police should only be called after the problem phase has been appropriately solved, if ever.

    Dogberry was a stereotype based on 500 years of actual and subsequent examples.

  5. Fuck him! There is no such thing as an "illegal" gun.

    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand.

    1. I can think of one class of guns that is always illegal — stolen firearms. And then only because possession of stolen property is always illegal. Even if you bought it in good faith, it will still be confiscated and returned to the legal owner.

  6. "Have people gotten smug enough to carry concealed guns on them with impunity, believing that they will not be challenged by police?"

    Since concealed carry permits exist, and Constitutional carry exists, this officer had better get a quick grip on the reality that there is no valid legal reason to "challenge" someone solely for concealed carry. The fact some one is carrying concealed is not reasonable suspicion, let alone probable cause. He's going to generate a lot of lawsuits, along with a lot of hostility toward police officers.

  7. Just looked at the followup article and had to react to the comments from Deputy Juanita Harris in Belton (Bell Co.), TX.

    Her ignorance of the SCOTUS Heller opinion is stunning. Law enforcement like this is a danger to the Constitution. She is a prime example of the reason legal gun owners do not trust the police.She is the one twisting the meaning of the Second Amendment, and she's too stupid to realize it. A classic authoritarian who thinks she should be the authority.

  8. Not the sharpest cop I'd say.

    If a solution is really wanted for gun violence, its easy to formulate, hard to implement

    Step one is an honest assessment of the source which is mainly poor Blacks and a smattering of other groups involved in drugs and occasionally other crimes)

    Step two requires intact families with stable decently remunerated employment, a mom at home and a strong father is the only way to deal with gun violence.

    CCW can help but only of the carrier has the right mindset and probably some training. As for police concerns. How hard is to ask "Hi, I'm officer friendly, are you carrying today"

    If you screen cops for a decent to high IQ, calm temperament , non coercive personality types and integrate them into a healthy community, you'll have far fewer issues

    As for punishment it has some value as well but the US locks up per capita more than anyone other than maybe the Norks and China .

    Its mostly drug related but the only way to deal with the drug issue is closed borders so that drugs can't get here. This would also help with the job situation but it would require immense political change to implement as there is too much money in globalism

    We also must integrate people back into society. Fully restoring civil rights after a time is a good way to do this and if you've done the others, its manageable.

    The sociopaths and habitual criminals can just stay locked up.

    However doing any of these things is nigh impossible, 1st its a mix of Left and Right ideas and 2nd, its expensive. Far too many corporations would rather than nation be in ruins than pay good wages.

  9. Where to start? Big picture, lets remember that a police force per se is a fairly new creation in history. The first professional force was created in London in the 1800s as a solution to felt needs if the community. But when a solution is no longer meeting the need or is a problem itself, time to rethink. This isn't BLM Antifa blather about defunding police. It's a reappraisal of social ills that make it untenable for police forces to function in the way intended, i.e., a normal, functional society. In most cities now we don't have that. So asking how police can adapt to a society that is no longer appropriate for hired, publicly funded law enforcement is the wrong question. We should all assume that cities are lawless predatory zones where you are a potential target for the predators. Police are irrelevant to the equation. Where allowed, going armed is a bare minimum necessity. Where not allowed…stay out. If you still live in a city, God help you.

    The sad reality is that there is no good solution now. We live in an authoritarian oligarchy that selectively enforces laws or not. Nothing will change until things get so bad that it's more uncomfortable for average people to do nothing than to demand change. Sooner or later the collapse comes and then a new day.

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